Tuesday, February 10, 2009

Invisible Man Ch 17-19

Invisible Man

Chapter 17

The narrator gets a new job as Harlem spokesman. He is told: “You will have freedom of action—and you will be under strict discipline to the committee.” Does that seem paradoxical?

Here we are introduced to Ras the Exhorter—said to be a black nationalist. Is Ras on the Brotherhood’s side or not?

Who is Garvey?

No sooner had the Brothers said they were going to use no violence, than a dangerous fight breaks out involving Ras. Here Ras makes a speech that outlines his philosophy. Discuss the difference between the philosophies of Ras and of the Brotherhood.

Ras says he is “no black traitor to the black people for the white people.” Does that remind you of anything else from earlier in the book?

The narrator says (p. 379) “I am what they think I am….” On p. 380 he says “there were two of me….” Identity issues again!


Chapter 18

The letter at the beginning is kind of shocking (yes?). We have seen “friendly advice” before in the book (grandfather, the vet, Emerson, Jack). Discuss. Does this piece of advice parallel any of the others? Who do you think would send this letter and why?

Surely there’s some symbolism involved in the gift (the link of chain) Tarp gives to the narrator. Talk about this symbol. Notice:
-It is a broken (filed) link
-It reminds the narrator of something in Bledsoe’s office.
-Tarp himself seems to remind the narrator of his grandfather.
-Brother Wrestrum attributes a different meaning to it (or at least a different connotation).

Wrestrum also points out that the Brotherhood may not as pure as it seems. Is he just suspicious? Or do you think he’s right?

Wrestrum also seems a bit contradictory when he advocates pure, blind brotherhood, but also is suspicious of the whites and wants flags and banners “Specially for us black brothers.” Discuss this last point.

When Wrestrum accuses the narrator, is he motivated by the same things as Bledsoe was? Ras? Is his motivation different?


Chapter 19

Here the narrator is seduced by one of his female listeners; ironically, he is now dealing with the “Woman question,” and this woman seems quite uninhibited.

On pages 419-420 the narrator discusses a sense of expectancy: “[they] seemed to expect some unnamed something whenever I appeared…. and it nothing to do with anything I might say.” So he’s a master of words, but it’s not always his words that people are attracted to or repulsed by. (For example, the woman with the red robe). Comment.

48 comments:

  1. Yes that is paradoxical because he is supposed to have freedom to speak how he wants and say all the things he feels need to be said. However, he is still under the stringent doctrines of the committee. Ras is NOT on the same page/side as the Brotherhood. He believes that they are a hoax and are only trying to take down the black man in the end. Ras believes that the black men should stick together and not try to fight one another. The white man is the enemy and not your friend. The Brotherhood follows more so on: go reach out to your community, black or white and get the people involved. They believe that by taking action and joining forces with the Brotherhood, the people are giving themselves a voice and are not being surpressed.

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  2. Ch 17, Q1:
    Yes! It's totally paradoxical. How much more obvious can they be than telling him he is going to do what they want, when they want it, and how they want it to be done? Maybe they don't say this in as many words, but it is def implied. The narrator is so blinded that he cannot see this, at least not yet. I keep suspecting that in time he will come to the realization however. As jazz said, the paradox lies within the fact that he should be free to do what he wants, in terms of his speech making, yet it has already been noted in the previous chapter that the Brotherhood was "unsatisfied" with the (non-scientifical) manner of his first speech for them. It proved to have great results with the audience, which was the narrator's goal, yet this success did not satisfy the Brotherhood. With the warning that he will be watched or "observed" on his every movement and task when done for the Brotherhood, there should have been flashing lights going off in the narrator's mind to let it be known he realizes the paradox. But he doesn't.

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  3. Ch 17 Q2:
    Nope. You'd have to be slap stupid not to realize Ras doesn't like the Brotherhood. He doesn't like their methods in the least and their ways of operating to achieve their goal. The Brotherhood claims they have the goal of bringing peace and unity among the people of Harlem (black/white) but Ras comes right out and says he doesn't believe in this. Ras wants to bring strength to the blacks and to lift them up, above having a relationship with the whites. When they meet, Ras accuses the narrator of succumbing to the ways of the whites. He rants on slavery & the ill treatments to which blacks had been submitted. By being a "black nationalist", just this label alone is purely enough for others to view him as an extremist, dangerous and crazy. Also, his title Ras the "Exhorter" is key in the development of his character. By being an exhorter, he supports his belief by moving with strong words, arguments, and clearly he has exemplified that his tactics include spur of the moment outbursts. This opposes the BH in every way because they believe in plotted out movements, scientifically planned speeches and never losing your cool/image to seem rattled or thrown off in the least bit.

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  4. Ch 17 Q4:
    I answered this in the rant above this comment so it counts right? yay me. i'm done blogging for the day! no moh, i say, no moh.

    (//.-)> i emo smite this book.

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  5. Chapter 18.
    I think Westrum is right. The Brotherhood is NOT as pure as it seems. I think that they are an EVIL group of people who have no right going around belittling and brain-washing African Americans. They remind me of a group that was in the movie Malcolm X for some reason (ha). I didn't get a good vibe from them in the beginning when the man chased the narrator down and I defintely cannot stand them now. Westrum is contradictory when he advocates "pure blind brotherhood" [blind!ha] because it's as if he has alernative motives that are secretive. And that is ironic too because when he talks to the narrator he warns him that their are people involved in the Brotherhood who are only concerned with personal gain, and things that can benefit them.


    Chapter 19.
    I believe that the narrator has this sort of vibe about him. Obviously he can speak because that got him a scholarship, out of some trouble, and pursued by the Brotherhood. However, there are times where that's not what people are interested in. He is a master of words but it's something about him that intrigues others. Maybe it's his "invisibleness". Maybe people think because he doesn't have an identity that they can use him in a way and not feel bad about it. Since he really is a NOBODY they can easily take advantage of him and he wont do anything about it because he's so lost insecure.

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  6. Ch17 Q1
    The Brotherhood's statement is a paradox. They say they want the narrator to help them in their political struggle, but he must follow their rules. They don't the narrator to be like a black nationalist and motivate Harlem to demand equality, instead they want him to remain race neutral and talk to the entire population. They are using him just like every other white led institution.

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  7. Ch17 Q2
    Ras is definitely not a supporter of the Brotherhood. He sees it for what it really is, a white organization that uses blacks. Ras as a black nationalist is weary of whites and sees the inclusion of whites in the Brotherhood as prove of his assumptions.

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  8. Ch17 Q3
    Garvey or Marcus Garvey was an early twentieth century black nationalist and like Ras he was Jamaican which is probably not a conincident. Garvey believed that African-Americans should return to Africa and called for political, social, and economic freedom for blacks from whites. He was later deported from the US for charges of mail fraud, but most likely because of his radical opinions. Ironically other famous black activitist including W.E.B. Du Bois did not like Garvey and called him a danger to black equality.

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  9. Yes. He is proud of his knowledge and should be allowed to say whatever he wants to say and be able to speak freely. The brotherhood wants his help and are depending on him to get out there political views...However he is looked down upon constantly? Odd.... I think Ras has hidden motives still. He seems sneaky and it seems as if he is going agaist the brotherhood. He is using them and I think eventually...its going to come back on him. The narrator invisibleness continue to gets worse and I would imagine he is starting to feel used and will eventually get tired of it and decide to do something about it.

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  10. Chapter 17 Response:
    This chapter basically put me to sleep...twice. The only things that I really got out of this chapter was...
    1. The the Brotherhood gave the narrator a promotion.
    2. Later at a protest Ras interrupts.
    3. A fight breaks out
    4. The narrator says "...I couldn't tell ours from theirs..." what the heck?! How are they different?! Of course they're going to look the same, it's brother fighting brother here. Ooooo...A War Between Brothers...That's deep, like Cain and Abel!!!

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  11. Chapter 18 Response:
    This chapter is where I could begin to see that the Brotherhood is not a Brotherhood at all but seems to be a business. He is told put away the leg iron. This whole part confused the mess out of me. He is told to put it away so he doesn't "dramatize our differences" but then he is told that they need something to set themselves apart. So they themselves cant be different in the group but the group itself can be, that just dosent seem right. The narrator is moved to another office and they speak of "The Woman Question" what the heck is that? Is there a man question and a Chinese question? A white and black question? It seems as if White and Black aren't the only categories anymore as the book progresses.

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  12. Chapter 19 Response:
    The incident with the woman is kind of odd...she keeps referring to him as Brother...ewww. I agree with Jazz on this chapter. Maybe it's the narrators invisibility that lure people to him.

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  13. Chap.17: I totally have to agree with everyone else that the statement is indeed paradoxal, "You will be free, but I will control everything you do." Yep, it's paradoxal. It reminds me of the movie," How to Lose a guy in 10 Days." The editor of the magazine finally gives Andy the freedom to write about what ever she so wishes. Then, she defines what Andy wishes to write about, aka what she wishes Andy to write about. In this way it is exactly like what the brotherhood did to the narrator. Yep, I made a connection!

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  14. Chap.19: I absolutely love that the narrator is seduced by a white woman. It proves Ras' point that that is how the Brotherhood gets to the black men; the Brotherhood gives the black men something that they desire but cannot have. Its parallelism to the boxing ring scene at the beginning of the book is amazing. I believe that by allowing the narrator to finally have what he has been so tempted with, the Brotherhood has made him more loyal. He may now fill as if he owes them something for this treat or reward. The Brotherhood clan is a tricky bunch.

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  15. Chap.17: Ras' statement about "no black traitors" definately reminds me of the grandfather's statement about being a traitor. He states that he is a traitor to his race, something that Ras says that no black man should be. Alright, that's all I can say about that! :)

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  16. ch.17:
    So, no Ras is definitely not on the same side as the Brotherhood. While the Brotherhood may be a bunch of self-serving Communists, Ras and the black nationalists are a whole different kind of dangerous. The Black Panther Party (y'know Black Power and all that) in the 70s were black nationalists weren't they? They were violent and dangerous and Ras seems to be one of those Black Power guys, except before their time.

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  17. ch. 17:
    The narrator's identity issues are a major theme of the book but it is quite a normal part of growing up. It's not uncommon for adolescents to fall for the ideology of some movement and get wrapped up in it like the narrator does. I don't think he will really figure out who he is and where he belongs until much later in life.

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  18. ch.18:
    I think in some aspect Wrestrum was motivated by the same things as Bledsoe, self-preservation. However, unlike Bledsoe, Wrestrum was afraid that the narrator was becoming too well known and I think he was a little afraid that the narrator would become the face of the movement. For whatever reasons, he did not like that and created this alleged sabotage to knock the narrator down a few notches if not to remove him completely.

    And it is kind of ironic that Wrestrum accuses the narrator of being motivated by self-promotion when that seems to be his motives for accusing the narrator.

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  19. ch.19:
    So, there's a line in this chapter that made me laugh. It's on page 418, "Why, goddamit, did they insist upon confusing the class struggle with the ass struggle" bahahahaha.

    Anyways, I'm going to have to disagree with last year's class when they said that the woman was attracted by his invisibilty. I don't think that she's this deep. From her husband's reaction upon entering her room (they have seperate bedrooms!! super unsubtle hint) and seeing the narrator, it is obvious that this happens quite often. They must be one of those sterotypical rich couples you see on TV shows all the time that only stay married for social and political reasons and have an agreement concerning situations like this. I think that to her the narrator was just a piece of ass to put it bluntly and that to say she was attracted to his invisibility would be to overestimate her depth.

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  20. Chapter 17:
    No, Ras is not on the same side as the Brotherhood. He has completely different views and thinks that the narrator is a traitor to his race. Ras tells the narrator that the Brotherhood is a white organization that is just using him (which I completely agree with). I also agree with what Katy G said about the narrator's identity issues. He's still a young guy who is trying to discover what he believes and who he really is. I think that this identity crisis is one of the reasons that the narrator joins the Brotherhood.

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  21. Chapter 18:
    I definitely think that Wrestrum is right about the Brotherhood not being pure. A lot of the men in the group are only working to help themselves. Even though all of the men are suppose to be “brothers” there is a lot of talk about race within the group, especially when Wrestrum wants to make a flag just for the black brothers. It seems like the whites are just looking out for themselves and that the blacks are doing the same thing. I think that Wrestum tried to damage the narrator’s reputation because he didn’t want him to become too powerful. No one seems to trust anyone else.

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  22. Chapter 19:
    I love Katy G's response to this chapter! :) I thought that it was pretty funny when the woman's husband came home and didn't say anything about the narrator being there. I think that the woman was attracted to the confidence that the narrator has when making speeches. The fact that he was talking about women's rights was also attractive to her considering that most men didn't agree with that back then.

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  23. I agree with Katherine and Heather's comments the main character he still doesn't know who he is and what he is going to do with his life.Also I agree with Heather Ras is not on ther Brotherhood's side. He doesn't follow the beliefs of the Brotherhood. Also he told the mian character that the Brotherhood is a white organization that is using the main charcter.

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  24. I think that the broken chain is very symbolic of how the Brotherhood and the generally broken and corrupted. Also shows how all that have suffered are linked together, because Tarp has the filed link from when he escaped from a chain gang. Also the broken link symbolizies freedom after leaving the chian gang Tarp gets his own freedom. Also I agree with Heather that Wrestrum is right about the Brotherhood not being pure, because all of the men are only working for thier own good.

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  25. Again I agree with Heather and Katherine this chapter was wuite funny. :) This woman is definately attracted to the main character, bauce he is dealing with women right's. At that point in time most men didn't care less about women or their rights. So the main character was like a miracle from God that was sent to these women.

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  26. So Ras's comment that he is "no black traitor to the black people for the white people" is pretty cool. To me, he seems like Dr. Bledsoe's evil twin (well maybe not evil, but just that they're polar opposites). Ras believes in helping the blacks by fighting against the whites and all that they represent. On the other hand, Dr. Bledsoe believes he is helping blacks (furthering their education) by being who the whites want him to be. Dr. Bledsoe's semi-submissive attitude is in complete contradiction to that of Ras. Although I still think both men are having an impact on the people around them, I don't really see either one as that positive. Ras is at least being true to his personal beliefs, while Bledsoe is hiding behind a front.

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  27. I like the symbol of the letter in Chapter 18. I think it does parallel the advice that the narrrator has received from others earlier in the novel. Each person has reminded him to fight the good fight and stay true to himself. They tell him to fight the corruption that has become prevalent in men like him, those moving from the South to the North. Everyone who gives him advice seems to have learned from personal experience. Although they have always thought they themselves exempt from corruption, it seems that it caught up with each of them and they are simply trying to warn him. Because of this, I feel like the letter is from someone who has been put in a similar situation as the narrator. They've been given authority by a group, maybe even the Brotherhood, and have come to understand the error of their doctrine. I think the letter is partially beneficial for the narrator because it at least makes him stop and smell the roses for a second.

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  28. In Chapter 19, I think it's very important that the narrator realizes that people aren't necessarily attracted to the words he's saying, but something else. For the women, he obviously represents something that is foreign to them: an educated black man who just so happens to be fighting for their rights. It seems like too much of a coincidence that the narrator doesn't have much problem with going back to the woman's apartment to "discuss" politics. Not only do the women expect something of the narrator, the Brotherhood places a lot of expectancy on the narrator. For example, they expect him to move downtown and argue this new topic without argument, which he does. Also each time they give him the opportunity to speak, the Brotherhood expects the narrator to present their "scientific" ideas rather than his views based on other things. The narrator seems all too eager to submit to the beliefs of Brother Hambro and the rest of the Brotherhood simply because it's what they want of him. Because of his identity crisis, having someone else tell him who to be seems easier than trying to think for himself anymore.

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  29. Chapter 17: Ras seems to be a confused man. He may not believe he is on the Brotherhood’s side, but they are both fighting for black/equal rights. His confusion seems to be that where as the Brotherhood is in alliance with white men to help them, Ras believes that the Blackman should earn his rights without any help. When Ras says that “no black traitor to the black people for the white people” reminds me of the grandfather’s advice to the narrator that he must live with his head in the lion’s mouth.

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  30. Chapter 18: The broken chain link is a very powerful symbol used here. It reminds the narrator that slavery is part of his past and that he is working towards equal rights for the blacks. The narrator is remind of his grandfather here because I believe that in a way Brother Tarp gives the narrator some advice about overcoming the chains that hold him down. It’s very suspicious when Brother Wrestrum comes over and talks to the narrator. The reader almost wants to believe that it is he that left the letter on the desk. When Wrestrum accuses the narrator I think it is out of jealousy and not for the protection of the Brotherhood.

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  31. Chapter 19: So he definitely fell into the trap by letting her seduce him. The narrator must be a handsome man if the women are moved by more than just his speeches that he gives. I feel sorry that he has been given this new assignment when he is more powerful and dedicated in Harlem. The narrator should have been smarted to leave the apartment as soon as possible. And the husband? Was it a dream or was it real? Maybe it was a dream because he was feeling guilty about having slept with her that he assumes he sees her husband come in who just so happens to be a brother….

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  32. im not sure that this was a question but him being switched to womens rights shows how they restrict him and they give him free reign as long as he does what they want. i agree sex scene was funny. poor husband...maybe...im not sure but that seems like typical rich marriages. glad im not rich. thats too weird

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  33. the link is a symbol of Tarps freedom and the struggles he has gone through. However, it is an illusion of freedom as well because his leg is still a sort of bondage caused by his past. the past still affects him and holds him prisoner. this shows how the black freedom and rights, especially in the brotherhood, are limited and restraining.

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  34. Ras is not part of the Brotherhood. thats a dumb suggestion. a big difference between them is that Ras gets stuff done. i dont agree with him but the man has the courage to lead his people and do something. thats what the brotherhood fails to do.

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  35. Ras is very opposed to the brotherhood. Reading this section cleared up A LOT of the confusion I had with the Brotherhood's mission. Their mission is to spread to everyone that they are each others "brothers," and that peace and obedience is the way to go. Ras strongly disagrees, believing that black people should forcefully fight for their equality, not giving into any "peace-making" ideas from white people. Ras thinks that since the white people ruled and enslaved blacks not long ago, this Brotherhood is a pointless scheming mission. Ras admires and looks up to Clifton, calling him their "black king," but Ras is very opposed to his participation in the Brotherhood movement and even gets violent with Clifton and the narrator. Ras' speech about traitors correlates directly it's what the narrator remembers from his grandfather about being a traitor to his own people.

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  36. I noticed the narrator's comment, "there were two of me" as well, and still think that he can't figure out who he is and what he wants. This is similar to the instance when the woman thought he was a southern negro and the man thought he was a northern one. The narrator is a mixture between so many things, and he wants so many different things. He can see that the Brotherhood is beginning to treat him unfairly, with the accusations by Westrum and the suddenly cold treatment Brother Jack is giving him, yet he doesn't want to lose this opportunity, the identity he is being given. Then there are times when he wishes he were invisible, such as when the anonymous writer sent the narrator the warning letter. This frightened the narrator, and he probably began to see the impact this job was having on his identity, or at least his fake identity. The narrator is not really a person, but is a mixture of things he wants and others want of him. He is almost like a puppet who is controlled by the Brotherhood to do certain things, go certain places, and say certain things. The narrator has changed a lot since the day he was exiled from college by Bledsoe, but that adventure sent him searching further for an identity rather than finding his own.

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  37. The part where the narrator is seduced fits in nicely with Ras' statement about the Brotherhood giving black men white women to sleep with. Rather than genuinely caring for and liking the narrator, the white woman is merely intrigued by him, his eloquence, and his identity (that's pretty ironic). Her husband is nothing more than a figurine in her home who comes and goes, so she uses the narrator to fulfill her sexual desires, not thinking anything of his purpose and what he is working toward. She probably gets a thrill out of his color, which is probably another reason she is so ready to sleep with him. She is an activist for Women's rights, which says a lot about her rebellious character. It seems to fit that she would sleep with a black man when she is married. This is just another example of the odd racism found in New York, which I still haven't figured out yet. She is not racist toward the narrator at all, but merely uses him to fulfill her sexual desires, similar to the way slave owners would rape their woman slaves (but not nearly as extreme seeing as she seduced I'm and it wasn't actually rape). Maybe that isn't a fitting connection, but it is what the seduction scene reminded me of.

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  38. Ras definitely is not on the same side of the brotherhood. But that does not make him wrong. I think he just wants the black people to get a head and have a chance. But he doesn't seem to want equality. He doesn't trust white people. I understand where he's coming from but he needs to get past that and see that if the black people and white people don't work together, things will never really change. He sees that the brotherhood doesn't really care about the people like they claim to but he is going about everything the wrong way. All of this fighting seems to be going nowhere.

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  39. Well the letter is obviously from a black man and after Wrestrum comes into his office and talks and acts the way he does, I think he sent it. The very last sentence of the letter is what reminds of advice he narrator has received in the past the most. It says that they (meaning the white people) don't want the black people to go too fast no matter how much they act like they do. His grandfather gave him similar advice. The narrator has also been told that he can help his people more if he just slows down so he won't be cut down suddenly just like the letter says. It seems like everyone is trying to tell him that there are many ways to help his people like he wants, he just has to be careful because of those who may want to cut him down.

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  40. The brotherhood is against Ras because they are against violence.
    Garvey was a real black activist from this time period who had the idea that blacks should return to Africa.
    Ras wants to take actions that are deemed violent while the brotherhood believes in peaceful protest that involves many people.
    This statement by Ras reminds me of the narrator’s statement earlier in the book.
    Again, the narrator is going against his better judgment and is following a new identity set forth by others.

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  41. This letter parallels the advice given by the grandfather at the beginning of the book because he is told to stay true to himself. I think that someone who was once in the same position as the narrator.

    The broken link represents the broken bound to oppression that black men strive to achieve.
    Tarp’s consequences for saying no to a white man contrast the grandfather’s notion of yessing a white man.
    Wrestrum is disgusted by the link and sees it as dangerous.

    I think that the brotherhood isn’t as pure as it seems and actually has underlying malicious intentions.

    Wrestrum is contradictory because he advocates pure, blind brotherhood, but he said earlier that the brotherhood isn’t actually pure.

    I think that Wrestrum’s actions are motivated by his jealousy of the narrator’s success.

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  42. I think that the narrator’s invisibility is the factor that attracts others to take advantage of him and this invisibility repulses others from doing the right thing around him.

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  43. By what the narrator is told, he has the freedom to execute the will of the committee, not the will of himself. The narrator is steadily getting his identity taken from him without him truly realizing it. Ras is definitely not an ally of the Brotherhood. He seeks violence and retribution for what happened to his people, while the Brotherhood accomplishes its goal of "equality for ALL" through speeches and rallies. I did not understand the Garvey reference, but Philip's comment explained it to me. Within this chapter the narrator still seems to be undergoing identity issues. It seems that he has one self, the self that he knows and he has always been, the self with all of his motivation and ideas, and then his alter-ego, which is fueled with lies and is controlled not by the narrator, but by the brotherhood. With the comment made by Ras during the fight, I believe that the narrator will soon come to find his true self. Ras seems to be an embodiment of the narrator's grandfather. Everything that he says is very similar to that of the narrators grandfather.

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  44. The letter the narrator receives at the beginning seems to foreshadow future events. Don't know who could have sent it,but it may have been Emerson. He did seem concernd about the narrator, and seems like the type of character to be involved within the Brotherhood. The advice is very similar to that of Emerson. I found the link of chain to be symbolic of the narrator's new identity. He is, in a way, free from his past, but is chained to it at the same time. I found the idea that some of the Brotherhood was racist unsurprising. I worry that this will result in great misfortune. I feel like Wrestrum was threatened by the narrator. I feel like he had his own goals within the Brotherhood, and that the narrator was going against his true motives. Wrestrum is described has wearing a mask, which would imply being two faced. This is quite similar to the narrator, since he is living with two identities.

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  45. The woman acted as if she had little to nothing to lose. In a way, t seemed like she had some alternative motive. In reading this book I have started to look at everything as if it will dramatically affect the rest of the novel. I think that the husband actually did see him. The narrator calls himself "invisible." in a way, this almost serves that purpose literally. I also believe that this may have been an attempt to frame the narrator in order to get him out of the brotherhood, seeing as some of it's members are supposedly racist. I agree with Waldie in that the woman being a women's rights activist would make her rebellious. It is understandable that a black man would sleep with a white woman in such a "rebellion."

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  46. It is paradoxal that he is told that he is given freedom of action but then told that he is under strict discipline. Whats the point of trying to fight for your equality and the group you are fighting with is taking your freedoms and your individuality.

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  47. I think Westrum is right about the brotherhood not being innocent. They are too careful and strict to be purely about the equality of blacks. They even move the narrator out of the Harlem District and he then become a spokesperson for women's rights. The brotherhood must have other things they want to happen then what they tell people.

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  48. I think that the white woman had a different reason for sleeping with the narrator and that his invisibilty is actually making him visible. The white woman seems to be more attracted to him than his mastery of words. However some people only see him as words and not as a person. It also shows the difference in the north and south because in the south no matter what a white woman would not have slept with a black man.

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