Chapter 10
In the second part of Chapter 10, what is the irony of his being hired?
There’s obviously a lot of color imagery, especially white/black imagery in the paint factory section. Explain/Discuss.
Besides race, what other statements is Ellison making about business people? For example, there seems to be a lot of suspicion on the part of lots of people. Explain.
Still we do not know the narrator’s name. This obviously would seem to go along with his being invisible.
Chapter 11
In this hospital scene there are many other instances of identity questions, with a great deal of his identity being determined by other people. Respond….
This chapter has a lot of rhyming and songs. What’s that all about?
By the chapter’s end, the character has received a whole new identity and new beginning. Is this a type of baptism?
Chapter 12
On page 255, Mary warns the narrator, “Don’t git corrupted.” Corrupted by what? What is she warning against? I mean, he’s not exactly in a position of power from which he could fall very far….
What are your thoughts about the narrator’s prospects at the end of Chapter 12?
Chapter 13
The man selling yams could be seen as yet another reference to the narrator’s being an outsider.
What is the narrator’s talent? How do you feel about his [re]discovering this talent?
What is so effective about the narrator’s speech (the one he gives when the old couple is being evicted)?
At the end of this chapter, has the narrator found his place?
Who’s winning? Who’s keeping whom running?
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ReplyDeleteChapter 10 Response:
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I find it very very very funny that the sign reads "Keep America Pure With Liberty Paints". Hehe. Also I think that the paint factory as a whole is meant to symbolize America. The narrator mentions how the buckets and drums are labeled with the company's trademark screaming eagle. The narrator even talks about the paint of Trueblood's house and The Golden Day. He says how The Golden Day was once painted white but is now flaking away. (maybe foreshadowing?)
When Kimbro checks the Narrator's paint, he correlates it with something good, which is very ironic. He says it's "as white as George Washington's Sunday-go-to-meetin' wig and as sound as the all-mighty dollar!" Once again the white is counted as a good thing and the American society is compared once more with it.
The narrator is scolded for getting the wrong paint out of the wrong bucket. I think this again is an image. Mabey the wrong group or the wrong crowd.
Chap.10: I thought the paint mixing and colors were very ironic. The fact that the paint was white and to make it whiter a black substance must be added. It is hilarious to me that to have a "pure" white there must be black, ten drops to be exact.
ReplyDeleteChap.11: I think that he is getting a baptism in a way because he is entering the world with not only a new name, but also a new outlook. He no longer sees things quite like he used to and he makes a vow to grow; hte narrators change is much parallel to that of a new Christian.
ReplyDeleteChapter 11 Response:
ReplyDeleteI think that the whole chapter is a type of baptism. With all the hymn referals and such it just kind of makes it that much more of a baptism. I don't think it's about a literal baptism though. I think it's supposed to be a type of "baptism into a new life". The doctors talk about a device that will bring him back to life. So I think that's what the author was trying to do with this chapter.
Chap.13: I love the fact that the narrator rediscovers his talent of word. I strikes me as a bit ironic though, because his first speech was about the whites and blacks fitting in together in soceity, and his next was prompted by the whites' power of the black couple. Also, his first speech was written and coreographed, remembered word for word, yet it did not have one hundredth of the power his random, passionate outburst had. I don't think that he really rediscovered his talent, but instead he discovered a deeper piece of his talent of word.
ReplyDeleteThe need to have the paint sure white was ironice...but the fact that they added a black substance to make it "pure" white is completely ironic. The paint factory plays an important part in the novel and it seems as if the blacks are just suppose to blend in and help the whites to suceed in their own personal gains.It makes me happy that the narrator starts writing again because it use to make him so happy before. Or rather speaking. I think this is important in the novel because the narrator has a deeper meaning in anything he says...or rather something he doesn't say anything at all it just shows through his actions.
ReplyDeleteCh 12 Q2:
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter what position of power one is in, it is possible to get corrupted in an instant if you aren't careful. And even when you are careful, sometimes one just doesn't distance themself enough and they fall into the things which are viewed as "corrupting". For the narrator, his main "corruption" would be the Brotherhood. He doesn't realize it yet and views it as a union to do good for the black community. However, i think it's some serious stuff he's gotten himself into and eventually he's going to realize the badness of it. Mary is not a woman of power, just as the narrator is not in a position of power. The difference, however, is that Mary has a power within herself to resist all the temptations within the city. i think she realizes the difference between Harlem and the boy's original home, which is why she issues the warning in the first place. She knows he is young, naive about the city's ways, and on a quest for power so that he may "be somebody". The trouble with this is that, when trying to be somebody else, as the narrator wishes, one almost certainly loses all sense of who they truly are. The boy he used to be will become invisible to him, like a ghost he once knew. In time, I think these realizations are helpful in the narrator's final determination that he is invisible. Mary is a very wise woman and the narrator would have done well to listen to her.
Ch 10 Q2:
ReplyDeleteI love this irony! I agree with Brook and Sarah's observations about the paint, its purity being based on the addition of the black substance, etc. Obviously, this is meant to represent something deeper and fits along with the rest of the text perfectly. The boss claims the black substance is added for the sole purpose of making the white "purer". Yet in those times, it was the white race who was supposed to be pure by itself and there was no social mixture of the two groups, like there was with the paint. It's interesting how the black color mixes in with the white, just so that the black can become invisible amongst the rest of the white paint. Reference to the invisibility theme? I think so!
Ch 11 Q3:
ReplyDeleteYes, in the metaphorical sense, this re-assigning of an identity to the narrator could be viewed as a baptism. The main point that I find as a bit conflicting, however, is that in a baptism, you are spiritually becoming a new person. How can one, such as the narrator, become a new person of they didn't know who they were as the "original" person? I think the whole transformation is based on realizing the difference between one's old self and new self. Yet, the narrator isn't quite sure of who he used to be, clearly demonstrated by his struggles with invisiblility. One point of baptism is to find yourself. With his new identity, i think the narrator will be faced with that much more struggle and lose himself to this inner tug-of-war.
Chapter 10.
ReplyDeleteIt's ironic that the black man can mix the paint the best first off. I think it's amazing that he holds such a large role and has some authority. Although he may be a little full of himself, I do think he is very well respected by several white men in the company. I think Ellison is trying to show us how shady business people can be. With them going being people's back and organizing a union and what not.
Chapter 11.
I agree with Christina and Brook that it is a "Baptism". The rhyming and songs make perfect sense and could very well be hymnals or I'm thinking songs he remembers from his childhood. There was a good bit of weirdness in this chapter for me. But I think after reading it that it symbolized confusion that was going on in his head and maybe making all of his tribulations evident. Therefore when he awoke and received a new identity that he was a whole new person.
Chapter 12.
I agree with Sam. Mary is warning the narrator of the dangers of Harlem. He shouldn't be corrupted by the bad people who are fake. They come off as trying to help him when really they are inviting him into a whole new world of trouble. He is a very weak individual which comes from his "invisibleness". The narrator comes off as a very meek and insecure individual.
Ch 11 Q3
ReplyDeleteI think the narrator does go through a sort of baptism at the end of the chapter. At the end of the chapter the narrator finally realizes that he can no longer be a pawn of the whites and he sets out to find a new position in life.
Ch 13 Q4
ReplyDeleteI believe at the end of the chapter the narrator believes he has found his place in the world. He belongs to a group the treats him as an equal and they love his ability to speak of course he believes this organization is perfect for him. However I believe this organization will of course not work out that way.
The white led Brotherhood is winning while the narrator is kept running. The Brotherhood like the college is a distraction from his job to speak about black issues and inequality.
ReplyDelete"Optic White--the Right White". Cool.
ReplyDeleteChapter 12 Response:
ReplyDeleteI think that my favorite part in this whole chapter (maybe even in the whole book) was when the narrator dumps the bowl of yuck on "Bledsoes" head, but it ends up being a preacher. I absolutely love how they were compared here. It's just so ironic.
Chapter 10
ReplyDeleteThe image of the white paint is very ironic. The narrator has to blend in the black substance with the white paint, which compares to how blacks have to blend into the white population so that they will not be seen. This ties back in with the narrator being invisible. Its weird how the white paint is meant to be pure, but instead it’s tainted. This might symbolized the fact that some of the white characters are currupt.
Chapter 11
ReplyDeleteYes, I do think that this chapter serves as a transition for the narrator. It’s almost like he has been reborn and will now be able to start a fresh life. Since he doesn’t remember who he is or where he comes from, the narrator can now make a new identity for himself. I’m guessing that throughout the rest of the book he will try to establish who he really is. I’m wondering if we are ever going to figure out what the narrator’s name is.
ch. 11:
ReplyDeleteI think that that is the narrator's basic problem. He lets everyone else decide who he is. He needs to stop focusing on what's expected of him and what everybody else thinks he should be and figure out who he wants to be.
ch.11:
ReplyDeleteYes, i do believe that this new identity is a sort of baptism. He eventually remembers who he is but in a sense he never really knew who he was before and is starting to realize that. The stay in the hospital and forgetting his identity for a while sort of made him feel like he was starting over on a clean slate. He's accepted that he's not going back to the college and is more determined to make a life for himself in New York.
ch. 10:
ReplyDeleteThere's a lot of irony in this chapter. One scene that stands out is the paint mixing. The fact that the narrator must add black liquid to make the white paint purer is loaded with irony and racial metaphor. Also, the fact that the paint was still unpure and i guess corrupted and Kimbro doesn't ever notice it could symbolize that the whites are more corrupt than they may seem and they can't see that they are this way.
Chapter 13:
ReplyDeleteThe narrator learns that he is an eloquent speaker which we kind of already knew from the first chapter when he gave his graduation speech at the town gathering…only now his audience actually cares about what he has to say. He is starting to find his place in the world and becoming more independent. I have a bad feeling about Brother Jack, who wants the narrator to become a speaker for his organization. I predict that the narrator will join the group because he feels a sense of importance in the fact that someone is interested in him.
Chapter 10: “‘If It’s Optic White, It’s the Right White’…‘If you’re white, you’re right.’” This discussion between the narrator and Brockway describes one of the themes that was common during this time period. A black man never questioned a white man, to do so was to get you into some trouble. Earlier in the chapter the narrator is putting dope into the paint…dope as in the drug or what? Was confused about this. But the fact that he was using a black substance to produce white paint sort of shows that the two races combine to create a world ruled by the white…that the whites hide the black…that we are all part of something bigger???
ReplyDeleteChapter 11: I was very confused about the hospital scene. I didn’t think there was any disease with the narrator before and now after the explosion he has an illness? But why was he treated by being placed in a small glass box? It reminded me of being buried alive. As if representing the black race is being “buried” by the white man, and when he comes to life he should be the clone they want him to be…only he has a different kind of awakening that we see in chapter 13.
ReplyDeleteChapter 13: It seems here that the narrator has found his calling maybe? I think this chapter definitely foreshadows that the narrator will use his voice again to move people/his people. When the narrator is being chased by Brother Jack (?) it seems like just another point in his life where he is being “chased” by a bigger player in this game: Bledsoe, the vet from Golden Day, people in the factory. The narrator is constantly being chased from one problem to another. Will he continue to run or will he eventually stop and face his problems.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Heather it is very ironic that the white paint is made with black to make it more pure. This shows how the writer believes that everthing is corrupt, because even the pure white paint has black in it. Also it shows that blacks are hidden, and they are not allowed to speak out or have their own rights.
ReplyDeleteYes like all of the others have stated in chapter 11 the main character has been "reborn". While in the hospital he doesn't remember who he is which gives him inspiration to start over. Through this clean slate he is no longer worried about going back to the university. Although he is ready to find himself a new job that will make his life better.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jessica that it seems that the main character has found his talent once again. Since the main character found his talent once again I think that he will eventually get a job speaking to people. Also I think that he will become a huge influence on his people. I think that his speech in the street started a huge riot, and encouraged many to express their emotions. I wonder what would happen if he actually prepared himself to motivate people to fight for thier rights, and to start creating a movement towards equality.
ReplyDeleteIn Chapter 12, I think Mary warns the narrator because she is concerned about his well-being. Although he may not see himself in a position to be influential to others, Mary realizes his potential. Also Mary sees how the narrator is motivated by his experiences in the South. She hopes that he will continue to be pushed by these experiences and not what the people in the North tell him. She doesn't want him to get caught up in the politics of the unions or the struggles between Northern blacks and Southern blacks. She just wants him to stand up for what he believes in.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Heather about the narrator's position at the end of Chapter 13. The narrator has felt out of place throughout the entire novel. Now that he's being presented with an opportunity to be important by Brother Jack, I think he's going to take it and run with it. Even at the beginning of the novel, we see how much the narrator enjoys giving speeches to the people around him. I believe the narrator will team up with the Brotherhood so that he can have some of the power he's dreamed about having throughout the novel, but it will be taken away from him or he will be unsuccessful. This would tie in with the title and his belief that he is invisible to the world around him.
ReplyDeleteThe yams in Chapter 13 represent the Southern culture that the narrator has had to leave behind him when he comes to New York to get a job. The narrator indulges himself in the yams, buying three and eating them as soon as he buys them. Although the narrator knows others are probably looking at him oddly because he is eating the yams so eagerly, he simply states that at least he is not afraid of doing something he loves i.e. eating the yams. I think this scene is probably going to prove ironic because the narrator puts down the other black people for ignoring their heritage and culture, and I think he will probably end up doing the same thing. Despite his idealism now, the narrator is probably going to become the person he doesn't want to be.
ReplyDeletenot to worry. i am alive. thanks for the call. no matter how creepy. does this count as a comment. prob. not. ok. so i agree with everyone about the black being hidden in the white. but did anyone else notice that the wrong black put into the white has a very different effect and the whites notice it. it might also be saying that although all the blacks look the same to the whites, some want to help and some hurt(paint remover).
ReplyDeletein this set of chapters (and the next) there are alot of images of extreme hot or cold. this might be used to symbolize the varying emotions he is feeling or North vs. South or if u look deep enough someone could say its really about his underlying sexual frustrations. that might be a bit of a stretch. neway. i noticed several references to the snow and his freezing apartment and his "inner fever".
ReplyDeletethe yam thing was cool. he always seems to be running away from his southern roots. he rejects them to go up north and change who he is. but the yams bring him back to who he really is. but what i noticed was that the second one he ate was "frostbitten". now, was it really bad or did his shooting down his new found freedom what made it taste bad? is he again rejecting his roots, subconsciously?
ReplyDeleteI think that one of the main points Ellison is trying to disclose in the narrator's job at the paint factory is the continuation of racial inequality even in the North. Yes, the narrator faces different types of people and situations than he did in the South, but it is just another form of inequality. We know that the narrator could not get a job without a good recommendation, so he has to settle with a job at a paint factory. Furthermore, the name of the factory is even ironic, "Liberty Paint." The narrator is subject to no more freedom in New York than he received in the South. He is judged and beat up by men at his job because he is new, from the South, and black. For example, the narrator's first boss at the plant, Kimbro, is hostile toward the narrator, blaming him for not knowing the right tank to get even though he wasn't even given fair instructions. Kimbro says, "I don't know why they hire you people." In addition to this different form of racism from the South, the chapter contains vivid, racist imagery just from the color of the paints. For his first assignment, the narrator is sent to paint boards. Yet first he is instructed to stir the disgusting black liquid paint until it turns a beautiful glossy white. The descriptive adjectives of "foul black paint" and "glossy white paint" are more than just coincidences of color. Furthermore, the company's slogan is "if it's optic white, it's the right white." Even the North is trying to say "white is right." I would, however, like to know what greater meaning this had, other than a spread of racism to the North. I feel like it is much more complex than that; hopefully we can discuss this in class. This is just another one of the many symbols of racism in the novel.
ReplyDeleteThe part about the yams in the novel is very significant because it compares the North and the South for the narrator. At first the yams taste so sweet and good, like his longing to back home might be. He is stuck in the North during a cold winter, waiting tables, and sharing an apartment with an elderly lady. Back home are his friends, his family, an education, and a future. That's what the narrator tastes in those buttery, Southern yams. He asks for more, even imagining how horrified his friends would be when he has this great "opportunity" in New York to want to be back home in the land of racism. Then, the narrator takes a bite and becomes disgusted, it was frost bitten. I took this two ways: it could be bad because it is affected by the North or because he is longing for the South and realizes he has "a world of possibility," in the words of the vet, and needs to go find it in the North.
ReplyDeleteFinally the narrator has begun to shed his invisibility, at least a little bit. He speech during the eviction of the old people gets him noticed by many, and even poses the threat of getting him in trouble with the authorities. He speaks up like he's never done before and encourages the crowd to resist, which causes the crowd to take down the evictors. His speech contradicts the first speech he gave in chapter one and caused a positive reaction, over the negative, hostile reaction he received in the first chapter. He realizes he is an eloquent speaker and, furthermore, an insightful black man on black issues. I think thesis going to take him far and further develop an identity for him. He is hunted down by Brother Jack who insists on giving him a job, though the narrator resists at first. I think he will end up taking the job and become a powerful speaker and maybe even an activist. Yet, I wonder if it will end up going bad for him. Mary warns him not to get corrupted by the town, though she also tells him to work for their people. I feel like this is foreshadowing something important to come, though I ultimately feel it might backfire in the narrator.
ReplyDeleteI actually didn't think about this until you asked the question about the hospital scene but now I think this is very significant. The narrator cannot tell the doctors what his name is because of the lobotomy machine but also because I think he himself doesn't really know who he is anymore. Down in the south he was one of the black boys and was noticed by people. I have heard and seen that negative attention can be better to some people than no attention at all. Even though he is free of the racial persecution that he constantly faced in the south, in the north no one knows or really cares who he is. I think he is concerned with his own lack of identity. It also fits that this identity crisis comes up in the hospital in the north. This is even a bigger issue for the narrator seeing how he came up north to help him get a name for himself and be like Mr. Bledsoe who is well known. Now he is a nobody and this is new to him. The north has many opportunities for the narrator, but I think all it's going to do is cause a problem because of his loss of identity.
ReplyDeleteIt’s ironic that he is being hired for a position which makes pure white paint while he is black and viewed as impure.
ReplyDeleteI find it ironic that he is fired because he isn’t able to make pure white paint and contaminates the purity.
Ellison seems to be saying that business people are shady and don’t follow the rules and then blame their problems on the inferior workers.
This rather reflects the narrator’s life as a black person. Although he may see himself in one way, other people determine what his identity is.
ReplyDeleteThe songs and rhymes in this section refer to the songs that one sings in church and the rhythm of the passages read aloud.
I think this is like a baptism because the narrator has transitioned and has turned over a new leaf since he is disconnected from his previous state.
Mary can see that the narrator has a lot of potential and she doesn’t want him to be corrupted by the bad people who live in New York and want to harm him.
ReplyDeleteI think that it looks grim for the narrator, but hopefully he will avoid disappointing Mary by making something of himself
The narrator has a knack for making speeches. This alludes back to when he wrote a speech in high school at the beginning of the novel, however this he hasn’t prepared for his speech and people actually listen to him.
ReplyDeleteHis speech is so effective because he believes in what he is saying and the words are just flowing out of him.
Although he has found an option for his place in society, he hasn’t accepted the offer and is still unsure about what to do.
I think that society is winning because the narrator still hasn’t decided what to do and is still running between different opportunities.
The narrator apparently is very good at giving speeches. This was a spur of the moment thing and the words just came to him naturally. I think this could maybe be foreshadowing of him making a difference in the community or becoming a leader.
ReplyDeleteIt is very ironic that the paint company's slogan refers to white being supreme. The fact that the narrator was making this white paint makes it even more ironic. I think that the fact that he could not properly make white paint, but a white man could, was very symbolic of the company's racism. I think that Ellison is trying to say that all business people are morally corrupt and have no wish to take responsibility for their own faults.
ReplyDeleteI didn't not quite understand the hospital scene. I was shocked, no pun intended, by their method of treatment. I wonder if this treatment was for his race, not for an actual ailment. The ironic thing is that it occurred in the company hospital. I wonder what they were really trying to do to the narrator. It is possible that this is a new beginning for him, although I do not know if it will be a good one.
ReplyDeleteI feel like the yam seller represents the narrators past. During the scene, he feels very homesick and thinks incessantly about home.
ReplyDeleteI was blown away by the narrators speech. His natural talent for speaking really showed, and I feel that the narrator realized that as well. I don't think it had the outcome the narrator wanted, which may foreshadow future events, but he was successful in motivating a large group of people. I am curious about this Brother Jack. He seems to be good at heart, but I'm worried that he will result in unwanted trouble for the narrator.
It ironic that the narrator goes to work for a company that produces white paint because the narrator is black. Also, he messes up and some paint he makes is not white. The company that he goes to work for takes pride in making pure white paint. Also,the people in the company are really shady. It conflicts with the product they make because white symbolizes innocence and purity and they are corrupt.
ReplyDeleteIt is weird that the narrator is the company hospital and that they are giving him the electrical shock treatment. They act as of he has some kind of mentally disorder but it really might be that they are punishing him for something. I think it is like a baptism because the narrator is coming out of that hospital different. With new perspectives and realizations.
ReplyDelete